I just added a new algorithm to check the base materials each compound. Took me a while but I think I may have one that works for junior/superior as well. Basically, if a compound does not match the base materials of the result it will have a yellow exclamation next to it.

This has already helped me find a lot of incorrect compounds and a few items that had incorrect base materials set. Hopefully you guys will fix up any errors you might see, too!

Let me know if you notice any errors in the calculations as I don't even have junior/superior alchemy yet! Especially the formulas with more than 2 compound materials.

The one thing I wasn't sure about was if you compounded 3 or more items with the same rank with junior/superior. I assumed that it would use the bases in the order you put them in but I'm not sure if that's correct now after seeing this formula for red dragon gown. http://wlodb.com/compounds/5706

also, i just noticed this one which might change the rules a bit for junior/superior alchemy if it's true. I don't if the script is working exactly with the alchemy books. http://wlodb.com/compounds/5605

EDIT: BTW, don't take these to mean a compound is invalid. Some compounds have some weird rules. I expect that there are a few problems with the current algorithm so I'm hoping with everyone's input I can get it fixed this week.

Last edited Fri, 30 Jan 2009, 4:26am by scott

It's right scott, the alchemy book is grass based though. It thinks the book is an actual part of the recipe, I think is the real issue.

And thanks scott^^ sorry again about making the whole thing overcomplicated.

---

thanx an interesting update ^^

hmm i hope people don't feel too bad with jade and hard tissue which are often used to increase ranks, hence many of these types will be marked

yes before i thought when ranks are equal, the bases must be in order in which they are put to compound , but lately i have seen many high level compounds similar to red dragon gown .(one of them is confirmed compound of cross pike, i even added a comment abt it)

i saw one such compound in aikachan's guide also , so i even asked her the question and she answered its ok both methods will work

here's the question and what she said
http://forum.wl.igg.com/viewthread.php?tid=3020...

since i have seen many such formula from experienced alchemists i "think"(haven't done enough research into it) it works like this

so this is just a hypothesis in my mind(its hard to explain this,cus its kinda complex and have many possibilities to consider)

JUNIOR/SUPERIOR alchemy
----------------------

when all items are same rank / or lower rank than first item

eg item =>test (base = X/Y/Z)

primary base of result = first item (base = X)
sub materials order = best way is Y/Z but Z/Y can work if in the range of results (junior =-8+4, sup =-7+5) there is no Y/Z item or if compound fail to climb/fall to the certain rank of existing Y/Z item

u got the point? if not don't worry too much lol , its confusing for me as well

so

best formula for this is
test = X + Y + Z

but
test = X + Z + Y
can also work, and probability of success for this is same as "test = X + Y + Z" if no X/Z/Y item exist in the rang of results , but probability of success is decreased if an X/Z/Y exist in the range of results

oh and i don't think alchemy book have any affect to base in anyways though its internally grass based, and so i think u should exclude alchemy books from this algorithm

edit
----
or even sometimes we see formula like these

test2(A/B) = A + B => normal
test2(A/B) = A + C =>abnormal xD but this type works sometimes
test2(A/B) = A + A =>abnormal xD but this type works sometimes

Last edited Sat, 31 Jan 2009, 3:25am by dotnet54

---

great! thanks dotnet for that explanation...that's kind of what I was thinking. I'll rework the formula tomorrow to see if I can get it working with 3 or more item junior/superior compounds.

I bet with 4 or 5 items it's probably similar.

say for 4:
W + X + Y + Z

W is first base material if it's the highest rank:

then the X Y and Z could be in any order. It's going to be very confusing to code this. I'm looking to probably getting a headache trying tomorrow.

I'm off to bed for tonight though. I need to rest my brain after this last update.

yea np, i also need to go afk for few hours cya later and good night ^^

---

scott wrote:

also, i just noticed this one which might change the rules a bit for junior/superior alchemy if it's true. I don't if the script is working exactly with the alchemy books. http://wlodb.com/compounds/5605

Yeah the books do make some formula not matching with the base. In melone is grass base for alchemy books. Still remember I saw 1 tread at Chinese forum, 1 crazy guy use alchemy book 1+ alchemy book 1= common stone.
And funny thing of alchemy like concealment ( http://wlodb.com/items/1938 ). The base in melone is skin(leather)/grass, but the formula leather/copper/iron does exist, due to primary alchemy? wont it be leather only for concealment @_@.

---

yea mhong i have also been trying to understand those things and why they work like it ,xD the solution im thinking is "Type conversion!"xD well that's whats happening there, and now we need to find how this type conversion works, under what circumstances it works, ... etc .. got many unanswered questions related to type conversions

---

finally got it working! i think it should be correct now. as for base materials, alchemy books are now ignored and do not count as a grass nor will add to other grass rank items in the compound.

here are the rules as for now:
the highest rank base (or combination of multiple ranks of same base) must be the primary base. the other bases can be in any order as opposed to in rank order like I had it before.

also, I put some more useful information in the popup which explains why it is there.

Let me know what you think or if everything looks correct!

EDIT: http://wlodb.com/compounds/5779

just noticed this compound...is this possible to get your first item back if there are no other combinations even if it doesn't match the bases?

nice thanx ^^ this sure is a great update , its helping identify many mistakes

"just noticed this compound...is this possible to get your first item back if there are no other combination even if it doesn't match the bases?"

hmm i think its possible (but i didn't test it myself)

---

seems like black jade is used as a wild card since it breaks so many of the common alchemy laws.

if we can confirm the formulas are correct, i can run some updates to put that info in the database so we can search by items that don't match bases. this might help us understand some of the weird exceptions to the alchemy laws.

implementing such a search would be great help^^

---

I'm not sure about the SIS + BJ compound, I'm sure I could test it later though.

There was something I noticed though:

Red Falchion is Titanium/Steel yet I've made it from Titanium + Jade... so it will be marked as having a wrong formula, yet it still works. Any thoughts on what to do about that, or just take it case by case?

I only post formula's I've used and have worked for me, so don't worry about that with mine.

Another thing is that I've seen quite a few guides and tried numerous ways to compound the same item, and (for me at least) it doesn't matter which order the 2nd, 3rd, etc is in...

---

KaozReaper wrote:

I'm not sure about the SIS + BJ compound, I'm sure I could test it later though.

There was something I noticed though:

Red Falchion is Titanium/Steel yet I've made it from Titanium + Jade... so it will be marked as having a wrong formula, yet it still works. Any thoughts on what to do about that, or just take it case by case?

I only post formula's I've used and have worked for me, so don't worry about that with mine.

Another thing is that I've seen quite a few guides and tried numerous ways to compound the same item, and (for me at least) it doesn't matter which order the 2nd, 3rd, etc is in...

yea. well, the exclamation doesn't mean the compound is incorrect, just that the base materials don't match up. i think it's main purpose is to warn people against doing the compound unless they really know what they are doing....unless it also has a green check.

black jade does a lot of weird stuff. check out the black jade page and see how many alchemy laws it breaks. like i mentioned, i think it's a wild card or something.

http://wlodb.com/items/1850

hi kaoz , nice to see another good leo server compounder in forum

exclamation mark does not mean compound is bad , it can still be correct, i also have seen ur red falcon formula , so i guess its as scott said another black jade issue , hmm scott, may be ..how about u exclude black jade(or other jade based items) and hard tissue from algorithm like books , because jades and hard tissue are soo commonly used to increased ranks of same material from lower to higher rank

and as last thanx a lot KaozReaper for giving more evidence about that 2nd and 3rd ...etc.. (sub materials) order

edit
-----
lol hehe we post replay almost same time xD

Last edited Sat, 31 Jan 2009, 9:16am by dotnet54

---

scott wrote:

black jade does a lot of weird stuff. check out the black jade page and see how many alchemy laws it breaks. like i mentioned, i think it's a wild card or something.

http://wlodb.com/items/1850

Mmm, yep. I was taught by my sensai that if I wanted to increase rank, in most cases, use a BJ. It's quite an anomoly isn't it.

You're doing a lot of work and I definitely appreciate all of your dedication mate.

@ dotnet

Yep. Good to see you around too mate. :)

EDIT: Hahahaha, sure man. I learned from you and other's, it's my duty to share the knowledge back. :D

---

oh i didnt noticed this before

that same example u gave
http://wlodb.com/compounds/5779

it says 1st base Iron does not match, but it actually does (may be algorithm is looking at sub materials of ingredients also , which is not needed)only primary base of each ingredient is considered to get the base of result

---------------
off topic
hey scott check this out xD i found it while looking for some info, it have some unreleased items also,(not translated, cus translated URL is tooo long xD lol)

http://com.s206.xrea.com/wlo/

and this one is a damage calculator xD
http://futaba.usamimi.info/wlo/

Last edited Sat, 31 Jan 2009, 9:54am by dotnet54

---

dotnet54 wrote:

oh i didnt noticed this before

that same example u gave
http://wlodb.com/compounds/5779

it says 1st base Iron does not match, but it actually does (may be algorithm is looking at sub materials of ingredients also , which is not needed)only primary base of each ingredient is considered to get the base of result



---------------
off topic
hey scott check this out xD i found it while looking for some info, it have some unreleased items also,(not translated, cus translated URL is tooo long xD lol)

http://com.s206.xrea.com/wlo/

and this one is a damage calculator xD
http://futaba.usamimi.info/wlo/

thanks dotnet...nice links even though i can't read any of it.

that compound that i gave doesn't match the base since it is junior alchemy. black jade is higher rank than skeleton iron sword so primary base should be jade and second base should be iron.

oops lol yes!! thanx a lot reminding me that, so i now i highly doubt about validity of this compound ,before when i said
"hmm i think its possible (but i didn't test it myself)"

i was thinking this was primary xD), and didn't notice its a junior compound
anyways now i remember u didn't implement this algorithm for primary xD

---
for the links i use google translator hehehexD

---

Scott, secondary bases are far more flexible I've found. http://wlodb.com/compounds/5037
That's one I know for sure works, I've done it myself quite a few times. Primary Bases MUST, to my knowledge, match. But secondary isn't as vital; just recommended to match for best results.

EDIT: Came across a confirmed compound. http://wlodb.com/compounds/4151
It does the same thing; primary base matches, secondary doesn't. But it's confirmed.

More Examples (done updating)
http://wlodb.com/compounds/4572 <- Nevermind this one, dotnet corrected it.
http://wlodb.com/compounds/1025
http://wlodb.com/compounds/5174 <- I know this has already been talked about, but it helps to explain
http://wlodb.com/compounds/4045 <- Same as above---^
http://wlodb.com/compounds/4815 <- One of the compounds in your example, scott
http://wlodb.com/compounds/4397
http://wlodb.com/compounds/4446 <- To show it doesn't just apply to 2 item compounds

Last edited Sat, 31 Jan 2009, 7:39pm by Kazura

---

thanx kazura

just wanna say this was is ok
http://wlodb.com/compounds/4572
it was a problem with item dreaming staff (it must be Tin/quartz) not tin/crystallization

mistake is corrected now

---

Oh, alright. Didn't catch that, nice one dotnet^^

---

In reference to that last example (http://wlodb.com/compounds/4815), you can get Wooden, Red, Black gowns with our beloved Black Jade.

---

This http://wlodb.com/compounds/4151 is my compounding and it works fabulous. A 90% compounding for me, if it fails, I get such stuff as the cypress stick and other sticks and wands around that lv.

Well, and also it is a good way to make money, since both of the ingredients are pretty easy to get.

hey guys back here xD lol just wanted to discuss little about few compounds that was added recently

Ink [Fluid] (+0) = Feather [Feather] + Barley ~primary
Ink [Fluid] (-3) = Seagull Feather [Feather] + Pink Headband ~primary
Bronze Cuffs [Flower/Copper] (-2) = Water Gloves [Grass/Flower] + Horse Shoes ~primary

is there any one who can confirm these compounds? because with primary it seems result base is different than first item base with these compounds

---

I am not so sure about it, for ink it is a failure product. Like u can get straw-mushroom or harl-grass by recycle vine grass, paper grass, soft bine. While for Bronze cuffs, maybe is water bracer instate of water glove?

---

hmm ic thinking ink as a failure solves the problem, yes that reminds me of getting ink when i compound some type of junk. and yea bronze cuff also may be a mistake like that, with water glove set instead of water bracer, it looks like an easy mistake to make when selecting item name from combo box when adding the compound

---

yea, looks like ink is a failure compound. i'll update it when i get home from work. as for the bronze cuffs, i'm not sure...sounds like they may have selected the water item like you mentioned though.

dotnet54 wrote:

hey guys back here xD lol just wanted to discuss little about few compounds that was added recently

Ink [Fluid] (+0) = Feather [Feather] + Barley ~primary
Ink [Fluid] (-3) = Seagull Feather [Feather] + Pink Headband ~primary
Bronze Cuffs [Flower/Copper] (-2) = Water Gloves [Grass/Flower] + Horse Shoes ~primary


is there any one who can confirm these compounds? because with primary it seems result base is different than first item base with these compounds

=.= i dont think they used water gloves, they are to expensive to try compounding em like that

---

ok i'll update the compound.

this looks better:

http://wlodb.com/compounds/6167

horse shoe is another one that always breaks the laws of alchemy.

Yeah, as what I mention in "ERRORS IN DATABASE", maybe this can become a new law.

MHong wrote:

Yup, only the important 1 is the 1st base, although never try alchemy book in the middle XD
Here is some example:
http://wlodb.com/items/2200
http://wlodb.com/items/2323

Besides that, for superior, say that it have 100% according to base, but if x+y and x/y doesn't exist, the base will be come x or x/z, any thing can become wildcard, if the base doesn't exist in the data within the compound range. Example: http://wlodb.com/items/1938 . Many ppl like to use wolf tooth and black jade as wildcard becoz they are initially high rank raw material. However, sometimes will come out common stones =_=" , usually for compound without books. More to discover about alchemy =)

---